Enlighted UK

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Posts by Enlighted UK

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  26

  Newbie here

  by godlike in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  to this forum at least.

  i noticed a couple others posting newbie threads so i thought i'd jump on the band wagon.. i don't have a great story or tale for you all, i just walked away.

  don't know what the elders told the rest of the herd.

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  Enlighted UK

  Welcome godlike,

  Well done for walking away

  YOUR LIFE HAS JUST BEGUN!!

  Enlighted UK

  Enjoy your life, it is the only one you'll have
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  17

  A fine example of JW honesty & integrety

  by 68storm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would be interested in how many of you reading this db, have experienced, or heard of other people having experienced this wonderful trait among god's chosen people.. 41/2 years ago, my jw wife of 25 years, secrectly planned an escape from the marriage, with the help of her spiritual brothers and sisters.

  we were having some problems at the time.

  for the previous 6 years we would spend our xmas vacation in florida.

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  Enlighted UK

  outnfree: Sorry to do this to you but........

  My (sort of) believing mate was advised that he should leave me. His (very) believing mother discussed this with other (very) believing family members. They decided that as long as being married to me didn't affect him spiritually then they couldn't see a problem with us staying married.

  So kind of them - as if we give a damn what they think anyway!!

  Well my mate hasn't been to a meeting for 4 weeks (has had every opportunity) and has not been out on service (except for 1 hour) since October. He refuses to leave me (I love him!!) or our daughter.

  So, it seems that my marriage has stayed happy and strong BECAUSE of my husband, DESPITE the best efforts of those loving christians at the JW hall.

  Enlighted UK
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  67

  Joining

  by Daniel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i want to join the jw family but i am having trouble finding a hall in houston.

  do anyone know how i can find one or help me by giving me one in houston.

  thanks

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  Enlighted UK

  "but if it is right and true it is worth it"

  Daniel,

  I concur with your above statement.

  If an organisation has proven itself to be Gods organisation on the earth, then it deserves respect.

  You have to delve into past history to see whether the organisation has lived up to its claim of being Gods organisation.

  Have past promises made by the organisation been fulfilled?

  If the organisation claims to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class on Earth, then surely all pronouncements, rules and regulations from this organisation and printed in its literature will be right the first time, as they will be from God.

  Are you still with me on this??

  Using the above, ask yourself the following questions:

  1) Am I allowed to accept vaccinations?
  2) Am I allowed to receive a blood transfusion that will save my life?
  3) Are blood fractions and components acceptable?

  Before you answer these questions, please read the following which are quotations from Watchtower publications:

  The Golden Age, Jan. 5, 1929; Feb. 4, 1931

  “Thinking people would rather have smallpox than vaccination, because the latter sows the seed of syphilis, cancers, eczema, erysipelas, scrofula, consumption, even leprosy and many other loathsome afflictions. Hence the practice of vaccination is a crime, an outrage and a delusion “

  *** w50 3/1 79-80 Letter ***
  Letter
  FURTHER ON BLOOD TRANSFUSION
  October 28, 1949

  Whether by eating or drinking or transfusing blood, in all cases it is basically the transferring of blood from one organism human or animal to another organism, and this basic transfer of blood is what God’s Word condemns and forbids to his consecrated people. Just because a blood transfusion does not quench a person’s thirst or satisfy a person’s hunger is beside the point: the transfer of the blood remains an undeniable fact.

  *** w61 9/15 557 Respect for the Sanctity of Blood ***
  14 Disrespect for God’s law is so rampant that whole blood, blood plasma and blood fractions are used freely in numerous products that are sold for food.

  *** w61 9/15 558 Respect for the Sanctity of Blood ***
  16 Is God’s law violated by such medical use of blood? Is it wrong to sustain life by infusions of blood or plasma or red cells or the various blood fractions? Yes! The law that God gave to Noah and which applies to all his descendants makes it wrong for anyone to eat blood, that is, to use the blood of another creature to nourish or sustain one’s life. Even as Tertullian in his Apology showed how the early Christians reasoned on the matter, so today it is recognized that if this prohibition applies to animal blood, it applies with even more force to human blood. It includes “any blood at all.”—Lev. 3:17.

  19 In view of the emphasis put on the use of blood in the medical world, new treatments involving its use are constantly being recommended .But regardless of whether it is whole blood or a blood fraction, whether it is blood taken from one’s own body or that taken from someone else, whether it is administered as a transfusion or as an injection, the divine law applies. God has not given man blood to use as he might use other substances; he requires respect for the sanctity of blood.

  Awake!, July 8, 1969, p.30. The Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1961, p.564. The Watch
  tower, Apr. 1, 1968, p. 210; Life Everlasting, p. 337 Dutch eds. my italics<O:P</O:P
  36. Wolstenholme G.E.W. An old-established procedure: the development of blood transfusion. In Ethics in Medical Progress (Edited by Wolstenholme G.E.W. and O'Connor M.), p. 31. Churchill, London, 1966<O:P</O:P

  Besides the perceived hazards for physical health, as emanating from the exploitation of the penurious urbanites, the Society was convinced that blood transfusion would incur mental contamination. So until the 70s the Society frequently defended its policy by arguing from the perspective of the humoural physiology. The following quote provides an example:

  “Some say blood transfusions are harmless. Do you believe that? For 40 years K. was known as an honest man. Then he was given a blood transfusion after a fall. "I learned the donor was a thief" K. told police. "When I recovered I found I had a terrible desire to steal". And steal he did. He confessed to stealing ,10,000 in six robberies in three months. K. threatened to sue the doctor who arranged the transfusion, if he receives a severe sentence for his thievery.”

  To stress the imaginary danger of contagion with less enviable psychological donor traits, in conformity with the biblical adage "the soul of the flesh is in the blood", the Society regularly quoted from a type of literature which in medical circles would probably be considered controversial. So, according to the book "Who Is Your Doctor and Why?": blood contains all the peculiarities of the individual from whence it comes. This includes hereditary taints, disease susceptibilities, poisons due to personal living, eating and drinking habits...The poisons that produce the impulse to commit suicide, murder, or steal are in the blood.”
  In the same edition, a Brazilian medical journal was quoted, according to which: "Moral insanity, sexual perversions, repression, inferiority complexes, petty crimes - these often follow in the wake of blood transfusion". It is important to note how the Society stresses the perceived quality of blood through this negative characterization of the donor. If he is not a criminal, then at least there exists a social distance from the receiver. It is mentioned, for example, that Witnesses will try to protect their children from taking strange blood. And in spite of the fact that the donor may be a respectable member of the family, leading an immaculate life, the danger still looms. To make things worse, however, the donor usually is an unknown person, perhaps even a convict of a penitentiary or an alcoholic, as the Society reports (35). With even more horror the Society refers to the use of cadaver blood for transfusion purposes, a method in vogue in the Soviet Union during the thirties (36).

  *** w84 5/15 30-1 Questions From Readers ***
  Questions From Readers
   Could a Christian accept a bone-marrow transplant, since blood is made in the marrow?
  Doctors perform most bone-marrow transplants by withdrawing some marrow from a donor (often a near relative) and then injecting or transfusing it into the sick patient. They hope that the marrow graft will reach the patient’s marrow cavities and later function normally. Usually this procedure is considered only in critical cases (such as aplastic anemia or acute leukemia) for there are acknowledged hazards in preparing a person for a marrow graft and in treating him afterward.

  As the question itself notes, red blood cells are formed in the marrow of certain bones such as the ribs, sternum and pelvic bones. Hence, it is understandable why, in the light of the Bible’s prohibition on blood, the question arises whether a Christian could accept a graft of human bone marrow.
  The Bible states clearly that God’s servants must ‘abstain from blood.’ (Acts 15:28, 29; Deuteronomy 12:15, 16) But, since red cells originate in the red bone marrow, do the Scriptures class marrow with blood? No. In fact, animal marrow is spoken of like any other flesh that could be eaten. Isaiah 25:6 says that God will prepare for his people a banquet that includes “well-oiled dishes filled with marrow.” Normal slaughtering and drainage procedures never drain all blood cells from the marrow. Yet once a carcass is drained, then any of the tissue may be eaten, including the marrow.
  Of course, marrow used in human marrow transplants is from live donors, and the withdrawn marrow may have some blood with it. Hence, the Christian would have to resolve for himself whether—to him—the bone-marrow graft would amount to simple flesh or would be unbled tissue. Additionally, since a marrow graft is a form of transplant, the Scriptural aspects of human organ transplants should be considered. See “Questions From Readers” in our issue of March 15, 1980. Finally, writing in Harrison’s Principles of Internal Medicine (Update I, 1981, page 138), Dr. D. E. Thomas observes that “virtually all marrow transplant recipients will require platelet transfusions” and many are given “packed red blood cells.” So the Christian should consider what additional issues he would have to face if he submitted to a marrow transplant.—Proverbs 22:3.
  Though a personal decision has to be made on this matter, the Bible’s comments about blood and marrow should help the individual to decide.

  How Can Blood Save Your Life? (1990)

  *** hb 27 Jehovah's Witnesses-The Surgical/Ethical Challenge ***
  While these verses are not stated in medical terms, Witnesses view them as ruling out transfusion of whole blood, packed RBCs, and plasma, as well as WBC and platelet administration. However, Witnesses’ religious understanding does not absolutely prohibit the use of components such as albumin, immune globulins, and hemophiliac preparations; each Witness must decide individually if he can accept these. 2

  END OF QUOTATIONS

  CONCLUSION:

  18?? to 1949 - The Society ignored the “abstain from blood”
  Why was the rule promulgated in 1945 and not earlier (since blood transfusion was already in use at the beginning of this century)?

  1950 - it is basically the transferring of blood that is the key issue and all blood transfusions INCLUDING FRACTIONS AND COMPONENTS to be refused

  1984 – Bone marrow transplants (producing red blood cells and containing red blood cells, are up to your conscience.

  1990- Ruling out whole blood, packed red blood cells and plasma, as well as white blood cells and platelets. But now COMPONENTS, such albumin, immune globulins (which contain antibodies extracted from the blood of another person) and haemophiliac preparations are now up to your conscience.

  Daniel,

  If you were living in the 1920's you would have refused a vaccinations, based on the WT teachings. The chances are you would severely ill, disabled, and possibly die from the illnesses.

  If you were in the same situation now, you would quite happily accept a vaccination, and you would live. Have the WT changed their thinking? Have people suffered as a result of following the WT teaching?

  If you needed a bone marrow transplant in the 1950-70's: you would have refused, on the basis that the WT said that all blood, fractions components, red blood cells are forbidden. You would have died.

  If you needed a bone marrow transplant in the 1980's- you could accept if your conscience allowed.

  However, at the moment you are not allowed to receive certain components of blood and not others. People are dying because of accepting this and refusing life saving treatment.

  I know this - my daughter was in this situation.

  Will you be making decisions based on the WT regulations, and ruin your life as a result. Because those WT regulations will probably change in the future (see history for proof of change in regulations).

  Daniel,

  Please think carefully about this. It does affect your life and the choices that you make.

  I just don't want someone else making the same mistakes that i made and go through the mental anguish that I went through.

  Regards

  Enlighted UK

  Enjoy your life, it is the only one you'll have.
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  8

  Blood Transfusion Alternative Video Receives Award

  by jschwehm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the jw media site just posted the following press release.. the video that the link talks about is it a video produced by the society?.

  .

  http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=010613.htm

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  Enlighted UK

  Further to my post above....

  When talking to the same surgeon regarding use of blood in operations, he said he knew of instances when Witness parents had absolutely refused to allow blood to be given to the children, even in the direst circumstances. But when the surgical team were in the theatre faced with a dying child that only needed a blood transfusion, they as human beings could not allow that to happen, and HAD transfused blood, but when the child was wheeled out of theatre and into Intensive Care the blood drip had been replaced by an ordinary saline solution. WELL DONE SURGEONS!!

  I am not mentioning names, I refuse to allow any surgeon or hospital to be drawn into legal battles.

  Enlighted UK

  Enjoy your life, it is the only one you'll have
• 
  27

  An Example of JW Need2Get a Life

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we have often times seen jw come here and say:.

  why don't you guys get a life- well here is a perfect example of a group of folks who need to get a life.

  while many of us left wt and have gone on to college and gotten jobs where we are able to provide these things for ourselves and our famiies poor jw are sitting around waiting to cash in thier new system coupon in order to get these things.

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  Enlighted UK

  Hello "You Know"

  From what you say I am under the impression that you belive the organisatoin is God's organisation on earth.

  In which case the procedure of appointing men in the congregation is done through Jehovah's Holy Spirit. It is deemed a privilege to be a ministerial servant/elder/pioneer etc (or at least it is in my old cong).

  So why do you not aspire to such things as you so obviously have faith in Jehovah, why don't you try and advance yourself in HIS organisation, to make yourself available to him, through the channels that HE provides (Ministerial Training School etc etc).

  Just curious.

  Enlighted UK
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  8

  Blood Transfusion Alternative Video Receives Award

  by jschwehm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the jw media site just posted the following press release.. the video that the link talks about is it a video produced by the society?.

  .

  http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=010613.htm

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  Enlighted UK

  The Society absolutely STINKS with its constant changing ABSOLUTE, NON-NEGOTIABLE rules on what is and what isn't accpetable regarding blood transfusions.

  I have TWICE had to negotiate with medical staff surrounding blood transfusions and my daughter. One occasion was elective surgery, the other was an emergency that arose post cardiac catheter.

  The paediatiatric cardiothoracic surgeon told me categorically that there are occasions when there is no other alternative to whole blood, and that whole blood HAS to be used or the patient dies.

  Okay so the medical/surgical professions are constantly updating their methods, to improve technique (and lets admit it, reduce cost - blood is very expensive and resources are low). But the society would be wrong in thinking they are solely responsible for this change in thinking.

  Years ago, everyone who suffered with severe depression would receive Electro Convulsive Therapy. Current practice shows that there is psychotropic medication available that can alleviate some of the symptoms, negating the great need for ECT. But in some situations, there is no other alternative, but to use ECT. And it works in some situations.

  And the list could go on with all methods used in healthcare. Constant updating, improving etc.

  Why can't the Society allow each individual to make their own mind up regarding all components of blood, instead of forcing their own opinions?? With, as we know, the dire consequences if you don't agree.

  Just my thoughts

  Enlighted UK

  Enjoy your life, it is the only one you'll have
• 
  39

  10 Things That You Never See At Assemblies:

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a mexican wave.. cheerleaders.. a streaker.. ice cream / hot dog vendors.. people standing up with their fist raised high saying "yes!".

  extra time.. presentation of awards.. autographs.. booing.. the audience waving their lighters as night falls.. there must be more!.

  englishman.. ..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

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  Enlighted UK

  Did you find that at the end of the assembly, just after the closing prayer, everyone clapped?

  Now I ask myself, are they clapping to say thank you for all the wonderful talks, experiences etc etc.

  or......

  are they clapping as a symbol of saying "Thank God thats over and done with for another year!!"

  Enlighted UK
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  11

  Pioneering and the New System - LOL

  by Jang in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  found this on one of the jw sites a couple of years back .... just came across it again and just had to share it with you all ... the mind boggles!!!!!.

  pioneering and the new system.

  we were sitting around, relaxing in the wonderful spring weather.

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  Enlighted UK

  "But when we worked side by side secularly, and I saw how calm he was, even after smashing his thumb and rolling on the floor in pain, he said not one foul word"

  Now that just ain't human.

  Enlighted UK
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  43

  New Congregation

  by Deacon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok. we ran a thread recently about starting a new religion.. how about we start an international congregation here on the board.. we need 7 elders.

  7 being a sign of perfection..er....yeah.. we need ministerial servants.. appointments will be general concensus..er holy spirit i mean.. p.o.

  lets start with him.

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  Enlighted UK

  And don't forget that if the new "congregation" needs to purchase ANYTHING, including and especially toilet rolls and light bulbs, we have to have a formal resolution to the rest of the folks, then someone else has to second it, then everyone else puts their hands up. Then our new PO will sign a little scrap of paper that he holds in his hand, smile happily and toddle off the platform.

  IT IS NOW OFFICIAL - THE PO's WIFE CAN NOW GO AND BUY SOME MORE TOILET ROLLS FOR THE HALL WITHOUT FEAR.

  Enlighted UK
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  9

  Dont put it in print!!!!

  by anglise in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is clever.. everyone thinks the society are becoming more open as far as education is concerned.. we have had a few articles in recent years which even go as far as encouraging youngsters to get trained, got to college and acquire useful job skills for the future.

  then these are the magazines that the public also read and then think that the jw's maybe arent so weird after all.. but then go to this years dc's and we get the following;.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6326&site=3.

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  Enlighted UK

  Good point Anglise!!

  In the UK, the trend seems to be for pioneers to work a minimum number of hours in order to claim benefits from the state. They are then able to spend all their time in the ministry. Although i had noticed when accompanying a pioneer sister for a month that pioneering seemed to be a list of easy "coffee break calls", and sitting around in hospitals "visiting interested persons", not discussing anything scriptural, but leave the magazines anyway and you can count time time!! They also are provided with free travel to and from the assemblies, paid for out of congregation funds.

  I wonder what the Benefits Agency would think if they knew the reasons WHY certain people aren't able to work full-time??

  Another fine example of not needing an education are the body of elders in the local cong, made up of the following:

  PO - cleaner
  Elder 1 - window/floor cleaner (just for variety!!)
  Elder 2- carpet fitter
  Elder 3 - back street mechanic
  Elder 4 - window cleaner and (suspect) decorator (he has bad eyesight!!)

  What a fine example to all those youngster in the congregation. Do you think they will get a lot of encouragement from the elders to get a decent education. I happen to KNOW that they don't.

  PO's daughter is in late 20's, still living at home, cannot pioneer because of bad health (brought on by being out pioneering in bad weather), and has been a school cleaner for the past few years. No skills, no training, no prospects, no independence(which is probably the reason why she has been discouraged)

  Elder 1 actively discouraged ALL his sons from going to college when they left school at 16.

  Elder 3 didn't want his son to find employment in anything that would mean the son getting "involved" with future work colleages.

  What a forward thinking lot they are!!

  Enlighted UK

  Enjoy your life, it is the only one you'll have